Ep. 1: Do Ants Sleep?
There are about 10,000,000,000,000,000 of them, but do ants sleep or are they like little Terminator robots? Patti and Spencer try to find out. Transcript at https://podcast.unwieldylocutions.com/podcast/ep-1-do-ants-sleep/
There are about 10,000,000,000,000,000 of them, but do ants sleep or are they like little Terminator robots? Patti and Spencer try to find out. Transcript at https://podcast.unwieldylocutions.com/podcast/ep-1-do-ants-sleep/
The study: Polyphasic Wake/Sleep Episodes in the Fire Ant, Solenopsis Invicta
UW Madison page used to follow up on Dr. Alyokhin’s interesting fact: Know Your Friends Trichogramma wasps
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TRANSCRIPT:
[Theme song: “Drone” by Chastity Belt chorus]
He was just another man, tryin’ to teach me somethin’
He was just another man, tryin’ to teach me somethin’
SPENCER: Hello!
PATTI: Hi.
SPENCER: Welcome to Mansplainer.
PATTI: This is Patti.
SPENCER: This is Spencer. And in Mansplainer we research questions that aren’t worth looking up.
PATTI: I think they’re worth looking up. That’s why I ask the questions.
SPENCER: That’s a fair point.
PATTI: Then again, I kind of stop paying attention. So.
SPENCER: Yeah, that’s a fair point.
PATTI: Um, we, I really feel like it’s important that we let people know that I know how to use google. So. I’m going to bring that up. I do know how to use google. And the title of this podcast does not need to be Let Me Google That For You. Most of the time I ask these questions when we don’t have access to the internet.
SPENCER: Yeah. We do a lot of hiking, and we live in rural Maine, and sometimes there’s just no internet.
PATTI: Yeah, I know that’s kind of a mystery for people who live in cities or well-populated areas, but frequently we are in places where even our smartphones don’t have access to the internet.
SPENCER: Like not even a bar.
PATTI: I understand that sounds like hell to you, but for us it’s great, because really, if you’re going to live in a time where sometimes you can’t access the internet, isn’t 2017 the time you want that to be the deal?
SPENCER: Yeah…
PATTI: So, Spencer.
SPENCER: Yeah?
PATTI: Do bees sleep?
SPENCER: Yes.
PATTI: Do ants sleep?
SPENCER: Yes. … End of show!
PATTI: [laughs] How do you know?
SPENCER: So, there was a study done in 2009 that showed that ants sleep and more than that that ants queens and ant workers have different sleep behaviors. So. Hey hey.
PATTI: Are you going to tell me that, um, the little worker ants don’t get to sleep as often as queen ants because they live in a classist society?
SPENCER: Yeah. They’re serfs. What do you want?
PATTI: Justice.
SPENCER: [laughs]
PATTI: For all of the ants.
SPENCER: Okay. So. The study found that–well, I guess since this is Mansplainer after all, I should give you some context. So–
PATTI: Oh god.
SPENCER: So. Thanks. So, there are a bunch of different types of ants. Go figure, right? Like, that one’s not hard. What’s weird is, there are–
PATTI: There are the bitey kind. And there the kind that come into my kitchen to eat the sugar. And the bitey kind…oh! and the carpenter ones, right?
SPENCER: Yes. So this–
PATTI: Although I feel like that’s–shouldn’t they be called demolition ants? They don’t build anything, they just destroy things.
SPENCER: Well, they do, they just eat our wood pulp–they eat our wood to make the wood pulp to build their stuff.
PATTI: Rude. Back to the topic.
SPENCER: So. Uh, this study was done on a particular type of ant that has multiple queens in a colony. And there are a bunch of different types of ant, and depending on the species of ant, they may or may not have multiple queens in a colony, and even sometimes, colony to colony within the same species, some colonies will have multiple queens and some will just have one.
PATTI: That’s a little weird.
SPENCER: It’s a little weird.
PATTI: I guess I think of it–I think of insects as more consistent than that? It’s wild to me that there is variability here. Because I feel like with bees, isn’t the deal that if, like, if a new queen is accident–or when a new queen is born, they like fight to the death? Or did I dream that? Did I make that up?
SPENCER: It’s not–that’s not–
PATTI: That’s not a thing?
SPENCER: It’s not–
PATTI: I kinda feel like that’s a thing.
SPENCER: They separate, typically.
PATTI: Oh.
SPENCER: They don’t duke it out, necessarily.
PATTI: Hmm. All right. So it’s not like Dallas.
SPENCER: [laughs]
PATTI: Pulling each other’s hair in a fountain.
SPENCER: Thanks, Netflix.
PATTI: I didn’t watch that on Netflix.
SPENCER: Oh, no?
PATTI: Bitch, I’m old.
SPENCER: Wow.
PATTI: I watched reruns on real television, thank you. Also, they brought–they brought Dallas back. I mean, it was different but the same.
SPENCER: That’s what I was thinking of.
PATTI: Also, we bought that chill-ass WB Trivial Pursuit where every answer is about Dallas or Falcon Crest. No Looney Tunes.
SPENCER: Despite the prominence on the cover.
PATTI: Yeah. Very misleading. Thanks, Bookmans, for that eight dollar copy of Trivial Pursuit. Go on. Back to the ants.
SPENCER: This study looked at one particular type of ant that had three queens in the colony.
PATTI: What kind? If you’re gonna say that it was a particular kind of ant, you’d best be ready for me to ask.
SPENCER: It was a fire ant. It was a particular kind of fire–
PATTI: Oh. Bitey. A bitey ant. Okay, that’s fine. That’s enough detail. Go on. Oh, god, you’re digging through your phone for this information. Please, no!
SPENCER: So, what they found is that the workers sleep about a minute / minute and a half at a time about 256 times a day on average.
PATTI: That’s not great.
SPENCER: I mean, I wouldn’t prefer it. I like a nine / ten hour block. So, the solenopsis–
PATTI: Here comes the rabbit holes.
SPENCER: –invicta queens–
PATTI: Wait. Rabbit holes. Maybe I had too much vodka.
SPENCER: Fire ant queens were observed–
PATTI: Bitey ant.
SPENCER: Bitey ants slept for six / six and a half minutes on average at a time and slept for, uh, about nine and a half hours.
PATTI: And how long does an ant live?
SPENCER: Depends on the kind of ant and on the species of ant. Generally speaking, workers? A few months. Queens, under the right conditions, a couple decades.
PATTI: It’s good to be the queen.
SPENCER: In these ants there was sleep observed in queens and workers, what’s interesting was it’s different kinds of sleep, because the workers are only sleeping for, like, a minute or so about 250 times a day. And queens were sleeping for about six minutes. There are two other interesting things about that. The workers just kinda sleep when they need to. Like, they–they do their business, and when they have downtime, hang out. It’s the–
PATTI: See, everything we learned about from fables and storybooks is a lie, because I was led to believe that ants don’t have downtime. There is a whole story about how grasshoppers have the downtime and then have to rely on the ants who are very hard workers. They don’t take the downtime.
SPENCER: It’s a safety issue, don’t you know?
PATTI: [laughs]
SPENCER: A well-rested worker is a safe worker.
PATTI: I don’t disagree, but what I’m saying is that stories and fables have misled us.
SPENCER: Yes. They’ll sleep whenever. There’s no, like, schedule, all right, for the workers. They will–
PATTI: But wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. If I’m a little worker ant, doing my little worker business, and I’ve come into La Casa de PK, and I’ve stolen a sugar cube, and I’m haulin’ back to my ant colony, schleppin’ it, schleppin’, schleppin’, do I just take a little nap on my way back?
SPENCER: Probably not. Almost certainly not. Because there is an active stimulus–you’re doin’ something. So, if you’re, if you’re in the middle of haulin’ a thing, you’re, you’re up and moving, and doing the thing, so your energy is based on that. When you get back? If there’s no more cubes or if you’re just tired at that point? Yeah. And–
PATTI: And pass out for a really restful two minutes? Minute and a half.
SPENCER: One point one minutes, please.
PATTI: God. Sounds like a miserable existence.
SPENCER: The researchers found that there were three preferred sleep positions, and the first listed sleep–preferred sleep position for worker ants was hanging from the little ant colony ceiling upside down.
PATTI: Couple of things about this. First of all, I’m a little terrified, because part of the reason I was thinking about this was, “Do ants sleep at night, like while we’re asleep are they asleep?” No, they’re just going about their ant business, but they’re taking one-minute breaks! Secondly, is not han–latching onto the ceiling an hanging on for dear life–does that not also consume energy? How are you really getting a restful night’s sleep or minute’s sleep?
SPENCER: [laughs] I appreciate that correction.
PATTI: It sounds terrible. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’m still gonna murder them when they come into my home, but I feel really bad. They’re so tired. All the time, apparently!
SPENCER: So there’s no, like, schedule for workers. Just whenever any given worker needs to hit that quick, good 65-second power nap, they can do it. Queens, they found, were different. So, they sleep for about six minutes a pop, and they actually synchronize their schedules so they sleep. Here’s the thing, they sleep together. Like, they cuddle up. They sleep together.
PATTI: I just–so, ants aren’t, like, snuggly. I mean, there’s nothing soft about an ant. Why cuddle up? Do they produce warmth? Do we know?
SPENCER: They got a little ant-fur on ’em.
PATTI: I guess.
SPENCER: Besides, you don’t–you don’t know what’s appealing to an ant.
PATTI: No, no, no, no–
SPENCER: Maybe it likes that–
PATTI: They like a hard surface to sleep on? Sounds terrible.
SPENCER: Here’s the thing. Our cat Ted will happily rest his chin on the elliptical, on the treadmill. I have a picture of him sitting on the floor, straining his little chin so it’s propped eight inches off the floor at weird angle on the treadmill.
PATTI: He loves the treadmill. The treadmill gets really warm. Do ants get warm? Are ants warm?
SPENCER: It wasn’t on. Like, that day. Well, it hadn’t been on–well, it was on that day, but it hadn’t been on for hours. He was just being weird. And it wasn’t on the warm part, it was on the side part. Yeah, you feel free to give him a weird look. He’s a weird dude.
PATTI: He is a weird dude.
SPENCER: I mean, he’s adorable, but he’s a weird dude.
PATTI: All right.
SPENCER: All right. So.
PATTI: Go on.
SPENCER: The other interesting thing about the queen fire ants was they not only slept together, they possibly dreamt. The researches speculated that they, in their six minutes of togetherness asleep, they dreamt. The exhibited dream-like behaviors.
PATTI: What does an an dream about? Sweet tea?
SPENCER: Adams.
PATTI: No. No. No.
SPENCER: The X-Man Wolverine.
PATTI: No. Stop it.
SPENCER: Fair enough. Okay. So, uh, what they found is that there were actually two distinct sleep types in queens. There was dozing, and there was, like, sleeping. And during sleeping they would pull their antennae in, like real close. What you don’t see is that she is mocking me vigorously with gestures, because I am demonstrating, physically, pulling their antennae in. And they were basically unresponsive to workers who were coming around, checkin’ ’em out, doin’ their business.
PATTI: I am telling you this, but I am a queen ant, and you’re a worker ant, and you’re gettin’ all up in my business while I’m sleeping, I kill you. I think I kill you. I rip your antennas off, and I beat you to death with ’em. I get six minutes of sleep at a crack. Don’t disturb them.
SPENCER: She gets real mean when she’s tired.
PATTI: Listen. I don’t sleep well. Or soundly rather. I think there’s a thing that happens with women in their thirties. I think that biology is cruel. I used to be able to sleep through, effectively, a marching band walking through my bedroom, and now I wake up at the slightest sound. And light is a real problem, and I think it’s because, like, my inner workings think that there should be a baby crying, and instead it’s just five cats and a bunch of rodents. Pet rodents. And I get very concerned.
SPENCER: And occasionally a trompy tortoise. But. I’m not sure I buy that, because you’ve always been super-sensitive to light. Like, that has not changed in your thirties.
PATTI: The sound thing has changed. You didn’t know me for most of my twenties.
SPENCER: So they bring their antennae in, and they don’t respond to workers.
PATTI: [laughs] Sorry. I just pictured the antenna–like the old rabbit ears on television, like the telescoping ones that could retract, and you obviously mean folding. Right?
SPENCER: Yes.
PATTI: It’s funnier my way.
SPENCER: They were not robot ants. And in the dozing phase, they pull their antennae in, but they were basically bent at right angles, they didn’t pull all the way in, and they would occasionally stir when a worker ant came by, so–
PATTI: In a threatening manner, I’m sure. Go on.
SPENCER: You’re anti-proletariat is what you’re telling me.
PATTI: I’m just anti disturbing people while they sleep. If I was a little worker ant and I was hanging upside down from the cave, I’d get real pissed if somebody walked underneath me and poked me with their antenna. I only get a minute and six seconds–is that what you figured it out to be?
SPENCER: Queens–
PATTI: Don’t–
SPENCER: Queens–
PATTI: Don’t poke me.
SPENCER: –get six minutes.
PATTI: But it’s the worker ant, too. Rage. Rage. They’re very strong.
SPENCER: They are very strong.
PATTI: They rip each other apart. Don’t wake up a sleeping ant.
SPENCER: So, I had questions about this study.
PATTI: [sigh] Of course you did.
SPENCER: I would like to know more. So I looked–
PATTI: Oh, god, you have been talking about ants for 26 minutes!
SPENCER: [laughs]
PATTI: [laughs] It was such a simple question.
SPENCER: So–
PATTI: “Do ants sleep?” Yes. They do.
SPENCER: I–look. I tried. At the beginning, I tried.
PATTI: [laughs]
SPENCER: I want you to know that this is your fault. [laughs] So–
PATTI: Okay.
SPENCER: The study was published in the Journal of Insect Behavior, and I checked other studies in the Journal of Insect Behavior to see about corroboration and that kind of thing.
PATTI: Does not sound like a fun read.
SPENCER: Check out, you know, is there–was the study ever replicated? How prevalent is sleep in insects. That kind of thing. And I couldn’t find any replications, but I did see that according to the journal, that yes, it’s pretty common, probably. There hasn’t been a lot of research done on it, but flies, bees, and maybe pine weevils sleep.
PATTI: Still funny. Pine weevils.
SPENCER: Pine weevils. And I wanted to kinda get to the bottom of this, ’cause this was really cool, but dreaming? That feels like it could be a stretch. So I reached out to my friendly, local Applied Entomologist at University of Maine, Professor Andrei Alyokhin was kind enough to give me a few minutes and talk about sleep. And what he told me is he couldn’t find anything that the study was replicated, which is kind of a bummer but not really a surprise, even though it’s been eight years since the study came out. Study replication is not particularly commonly published. It’s kind of a problem in science, generally, across fields.
PATTI: But replication is important. It’s what proves scientific theory.
SPENCER: Yeah.
PATTI: So wouldn’t we wanna know that something had been repeated and proven?
SPENCER: Yeah.
PATTI: Okay. Go on.
SPENCER: [laughs] Uh, the short version of the problem is: Capitalism.
PATTI: Oh yeah. Everything’s about money.
SPENCER: Basically, uh, there weren’t really any replications that anybody can find, but there is a lot of corroborating evidence, because sleep is pretty well-established in arthropods. So, he mentioned that flies, obviously, were mentioned, and um cockroaches, scorpions–
PATTI: [gagging]
SPENCER: And bees.
PATTI: [gagging]
SPENCER: Bees are cute.
PATTI: Bees are all right. I mean, I don’t want ’em in my house. They sting.
SPENCER: One of the questions I had for him–
PATTI: They do make honey.
SPENCER: Was–
PATTI: Wait. Ants are not super useful, are they?
SPENCER: She’s gonna do this the rest of the episode isn–
PATTI: Well, I’m just thinking. Bees are useful. What do ants do for me? Okay, go on, nevermind.
SPENCER: Okay. All right. So–
PATTI: Oh wait. They milk aphids.
SPENCER: And that’s good for you?
PATTI: No, but it’s kinda cute.
SPENCER: They’re farmers.
PATTI: Yeah.
SPENCER: They have agriculture.
PATTI: It’s really funny that they milk the aphids.
SPENCER: So I had a question for the good professor about the queens, because they sleep together and then separate when they’re awake to go do their own thing. And like, they pile up together to sleep together. There are diagrams in the study of the different ways they piled up. And I–I had the question, does that mean that you can kinda compare them to house cats? Who are like, cool, snuggle up together, and when they wake up, bounce ’cause they’re kinda jerks?
PATTI: Let’s be honest, you’re talking about two really specific house cats.
SPENCER: Two. Yes. Two very specific house cats. One of–both of which I’m looking at right now. And he said, “no.”
PATTI: Oh.
SPENCER: But I didn’t like that answer, so in my heart the answer is yes. And I kinda feel like maybe he didn’t understand exactly what I was going for.
PATTI: He didn’t understand that you have two bro cats who like–oh, it’s like when Joey and Ross used to nap together on Friends.
SPENCER: Sure.
PATTI: Okay. I’m not gonna fight you on that. I feel like I’m right.
SPENCER: So, basically, he said the stuff in the study is pretty–pretty decently supported. Well-documented. The dream thing, even, is pretty analogous. They have Rapid Antenna Movement. It’s similar to Rapid Eye Movement in mammalian sleep. And, yeah, I asked how prevalent sleep was in insects, and we went through that whole list, and three days ago, there was a study that came out that even jellies sleep.
PATTI: Again. What are you even. Like the candy? The shoes?
SPENCER: Most people call them jellyfish.
PATTI: Uh, yeah, ’cause that’s what they’re called. What are you doing?
SPENCER: Well, they’re not fish, so a lot of scientists are just trying to go for jellies.
PATTI: Listen. Hey. Hey. How many scientists are listening to this? One? We know of one.
SPENCER: Look. If I know there’s a difference, I don’t want the nerds to come at me.
PATTI: All right. That’s fair enough.
SPENCER: Yeah, basically, the study is pretty well-grounded. I asked if there’s anything else I should know in insect sleep. “No, that pretty well covers it. It’s less understood than in mammals.” Go figure. Not a lot of people leaping out there to study sleep in insects.
PATTI: Well, those people obviously didn’t know that I was going to be really interested in whether or not insects slept, but go on. I wonder if there are any that don’t! Like, okay, for example, fruit flies. Ohh! Mayflies! Life cycle is what, 24 hours? Do mayflies sleep?
SPENCER: Fruit flies do sleep.
PATTI: That seems like a waste of their short time on this earth.
SPENCER: But, but they do.
PATTI: But what about mayflies?
SPENCER: I didn’t find any research that mayflies sleep.
PATTI: Huh. Okay, that’s good.
SPENCER: That doesn’t mean they don’t sleep. It just means that nobody’s studied, because they’ve only studied like six arthropods for sleep.
PATTI: Okay. Go on. Ew.
SPENCER: [laughs]
PATTI: [laughs] I’m sorry.
SPENCER: So, I asked Professor Alyokhin, “what’s your favorite insect fact?” And he said, “it’s not really interesting” it’s pretty commonly known in his field.
PATTI: I feel like this is going to be a surprise to me and everyone else listening.
SPENCER: It was a super surprise to me! Intense. So, apparently, there are some parasitic wasps that are smaller than unicellular organisms.
PATTI: Nope.
SPENCER: Has head, thorax, abdomen, legs–
PATTI: Nope.
SPENCER: –guts, everything, but it’s reduced to such a degree–
PATTI: No.
SPENCER: –that it’s smaller than a larger unicellular organism.
PATTI: I hate everything about this.
SPENCER: And he just left it there! It was like, “yep, there’s that. Bye.” What?! So.
PATTI: Can I tell you what bothers me about this?
SPENCER: What?
PATTI: Parasitic wasps.
SPENCER: Okay. Okay. Lemme–
PATTI: Wasps? Stingy. Evil. You saw that nature special with me where they ate the hive of bees. It was horrifying. And parasitic wasp? I mean, are there parasitic wasps inside of me right now? Do I not know? Are they living off of me? Are they growing into larger, more powerful wasps, feeding off my energies?
SPENCER: Good news–they’re not vampires!
PATTI: Parasite, though!
SPENCER: Or succubi or–
PATTI: Or ticks. Ticks are parasites.
SPENCER: Okay. So, this may set you a little at ease.
PATTI: I feel like that’s a lie.
SPENCER: I had to look that up. Because you can’t just leave it at, “yeah, there are microscopic wasps that are smaller than, than single-celled eukaryotes.”
PATTI: I’m gonna blame every unexplained bite that I’ve ever had on parasitic wasps, so.
SPENCER: [laughs] The UW Madison Department of Entomology–
PATTI: Oh, that’s not great. I have lived in, in Wisconsin, so obviously I am infested with parasitic, microscopic wasps.
SPENCER: –mentions trichogramma wasps that are–
PATTI: Oh, great. They’re also frat boys.
SPENCER: Touché. That are half a millimeter long and are parasites of crop parasites. So they’re parasite parasites.
PATTI: Oh, that’s good.
SPENCER: And these tiny wasps keep your food growing by killing the things that kill your food.
PATTI: That’s good.
SPENCER: They have an eight- to ten-day life cycle so larva–
PATTI: That’s short.
SPENCER: –pupa, adult, laying eggs, whole thing.
PATTI: Haven’t lived in Wisconsin in a long time. They’re all gone.
SPENCER: Eight to ten days. And you can buy them commercially–
PATTI: No. No.
SPENCER: –for crop purposes.
PATTI: No, this is a terrible idea. Let me tell you a couple of reasons this is a terrible idea. It is really bad, first of all, to introduce any non-native species into a region. Like, don’t do this. Just don’t. And secondly, it’s a waste of your money. Because I tried buying those beneficial nematodes, and I tried purchasing ladybugs for our garden last year, because we have some Japanese beetles, and I don’t know if you know this, but New England has a tick issue, um, and I think the nematodes are supposed to eat the tick larva maybe, or maybe even the Japanese beetle larva. I can’t remember. In any event, it didn’t work. We still have the beetles, and I have not seen a lady bug since we released the ladybugs. I don’t know what the deal is. Don’t waste your money. And really don’t waste your money on parasitic wasps.
SPENCER: But how cool would it be to release 50,000 parasitic wasps?
PATTI: Are they all named Chaz? I feel like they’re all named Chaz an wear Sperrys.
SPENCER: All right.
PATTI: [laughs] They’ve all got just three pairs of Sperrys.
SPENCER: All right.
PATTI: Some Ray Bans. Some Wayfarers. Yeah? No? All right. Some popped collars?
SPENCER: So, that’s Mansplainer.
PATTI: [laughs] He thought he was gonna get me by goin’ on and on, and I came in with the W.A.S.P. joke at the very end. Waddup!
SPENCER: I’m Spencer.
PATTI: And I’m Patti.
SPENCER: Our theme song is Drone by Chastity Belt. Thank you to Chastity Belt.
PATTI: And a special thank you to UMaine Orono, apparently.
SPENCER: Yes. And UW Madison for having a cool list about bugs.
PATTI: And specifically doctor…
SPENCER: Andrei Alyokhin.
PATTI: Who gave you a little bit of his time?
SPENCER: Yes.
PATTI: On the phone?
SPENCER: Yes.
PATTI: That’s really impressive.
SPENCER: For, like, twelve whole minutes, which is bananas, because I emailed him like, “hey, wanna talk about bugs?” and he was like, “yeah, sure.”
PATTI: That’s fantastic.
SPENCER: It was amazing.
PATTI: Never forget I killed a black widow spider in our garage the day before we left Arizona. Yeah, I am anti-in-house-arachnid. Outside, you’re fine. You come in, all bets are off. Okay.
[Theme song: “Drone” by Chastity Belt chorus]
He was just another man, tryin’ to teach me somethin’
He was just another man, tryin’ to teach me somethin’
He was just another man, tryin’ to teach me somethin’
He was just another man, tryin’ to teach me somethin’
SPENCER: Wow, aphids don’t have udders. It’s stroking. It’s a little grosser than… [laughs] So a question I had for the good professor–
PATTI: Wait, wait–
SPENCER: Oh, no.
PATTI: So it doesn’t kill the aphid, because I’m thinking like almond milk…
SPENCER: [laughs] No.
PATTI: Oh no.
SPENCER: You’re fine. It doesn’t kill them.
PATTI: No! I kinda wish it did. I wish it was more like almond milk than what you’re insinuating.
SPENCER: Collecting almond milk doesn’t kill the plant, either. It just takes the–
PATTI: No, but it squishes the almond.
SPENCER: It does.
PATTI: It’s not stroking–stroking is a real gross word. I am very up–I am so upset right now.
SPENCER: Okay. So, I had a question about the queen ants. The–
PATTI: [laughing] You’re gonna have to cut this, ’cause I am really upset. Wait. Like, what are the ants doing to the aphids? I had a really wholesome vision…
SPENCER: [laughs]
PATTI: And I don’t think I’m right. [laughs]
SPENCER: They–it’s–
PATTI: What are they excreting? Oh no. That’s not right. [laughs] Ew. I mean, I knew they weren’t mammals, but I don’t know what I thought. I think it’s like when I thought–when I envisioned birth in high school, I just pictured the baby hopping over the pelvic saddle. Like my brain didn’t want to accept what was real. Whew. Okay. It’s not just killing the aphid and wringing it out?
SPENCER: No.
PATTI: Oh. [gags] Oh my god. This is like the cockroach milk story.
SPENCER: Augh!
PATTI: [laughs] Whew. Okay. Oh, I’m really horrified. I had no idea. I thought it was cute. It’s not cute. That’s so gross. And meanwhile, now I’m upset that aphids have ejaculate.
SPENCER: No. Not ejaculate.
PATTI: What do you call it? Pleasure serum?
SPENCER: No, no, no, no. No, that’s not what it is. It’s not.
PATTI: What is it?
SPENCER: It’s…I mean it’s…more like…I guess you could kinda call it analogous to urine.
PATTI: Ew.
SPENCER: Like, they load ’em up, and then milk them so it comes out, but it was in their guts.
PATTI: That’s so gross. Okay, go on.